Sep 27, 2020
In Episode 333, Nadine Freischlad, writer from The Ken, joined
us in a conversation on the influence of both US and Chinese tech
giants in the third most important market in Asia Pacific:
Indonesia, the secondary exits spanned by venture capitalists and
founders in Southeast Asia and the story of Kopi Kenangan in
Indonesia. We began the story with Nadine's journey from startups
to The Ken, and why Indonesia is an interesting and hot market
after India and China. We discuss the influence of tech giants from
US and China in Indonesia and how Google has fired the first salvo
with bringing their cloud platform in Jakarta. Following on, Nadine
explained why venture capitalists in Southeast Asia are exiting in
secondary markets. Last but not least, she discuss why Kopi
Kenangan in Indonesia will not follow in the footsteps of Luckin
Here are the interesting show notes and links to the
- Nadine Freischlad, Writer, The Ken
(@nfreischlad, LinkedIn, The Ken Profile, newsletter)
did you start your career?
brought you to Asia and eventually to write for The
are you in Indonesia and why is Indonesia the most interesting
market in Southeast Asia?
- Influence of US & China Tech Giants in
- Reference: “Google’s
Kormo, AI Hurdles & Indonesia’s job recruitment
fires first volley in Indonesia’s cloud wars” and “Facebook,
Paypal’s payments play a super app-ortunity for
you describe how the US tech giants, for example, Google, Facebook
and Paypal, have built their influence in
- Google has recently launched a job recruitment
site called Kormo in Indonesia, can you explain why that came about
and what Google wants to achieve out of Kormo?
terms of cloud infrastructure, Google is the first to enter the
market before Amazon and Microsoft, does it hurt local hosting
- Facebook and Paypal have invested in Gojek
(along with Google and Tencent), how does that supercharge Gojek’s
ambitions to be a super app in their war against Grab?
the US tech giants have invested into Indonesia’s top unicorns,
what are the Chinese tech giants doing in Indonesia?
the recent pushback from India and US on Tik Tok, will the
Indonesian government follow suit with the influence of chinese
apps in Indonesia?
- Secondary market for Southeast Asia
Southeast Asia’s startups surf a
the number of exits from startups are few and far between in
Southeast Asia, how are investors justifying their returns to the
LPs (limited partners)?
- We do
not see a lot of IPOs in Southeast Asia. Can you talk about how VCs
managed to generate liquidity by secondary shares sales and
elaborate how the secondary share sales work?
there platforms where the secondary shares sales can be transacted
between investors, employees and founders of the
there sources of friction generated between founders of startups &
their investors (VCs, PE firms) on the secondary sales shares given
that it will disrupt the capitalization table (or cap table in
short) of the company?
you see secondary shares sales as an important mechanism for VCs
and PE firms to generate liquidity? Is this similar to how Silicon
Valley VCs and angel investors sold their shares to SoftBank two
- Kopi Kenangan in Indonesia
“Kopi Kenangan wants to walk in
Luckin’s path, not in its shoes”
you briefly describe the company Kopi Kenangan in
- Indonesia is a coffee country most well known
for the javanese coffee beans, how is the coffee culture in
Indonesia and how does it help Kopi Kenangan to reach its
has Kopi Kenangan as a business scaled up in the recent year for
example, their number of retail outlets and customer reach? Are
they having any issues of massive burn?
you explain the unit economics of Kopi Kenangan in Indonesia and
contrast this with Luckin Coffee in China? (Refer to Part 2
The Anonymous Report
on Luckin Coffee’s flawed unit
your perspective, what makes Kopi Kenangan able to move away from
the shadow of Luckin Coffee given the latter’s recent
you recommend your book, podcast and something which has recently
inspired your life?
can my audience find you?
Editor's Note: Our apologies as there were
some issues during the recording on Nadine's end. Hence you will
hear a little background noise towards near the end during the Kopi
Kenangan part of the conversation. We will hope to improve our
recording with our guests in the future
The show is hosted and produced by Carol Yin (@CarolYujiaYin) and
originally created by Bernard Leong (@bernardleong, Linkedin). Sound
credits for the intro music: Taro Iwashiro, "The Beginning" from
Red Cliff Soundtrack.